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Mad Gene Vane
14th January 2009, 10:36
Remember when Duke's football team played for National Championships, finished in the upper echelon of the ACC, and regularly won conference titles? Did you know the 1942 Rose Bowl, between Duke and Oregon for the national title, was played in Durham, because people were afraid of a Japenese attack on the west coast (Pearl Harbor occurring three weeks prior)?

I sure as hell don't! It was so friggin' long ago.

That's the way NCSU men's basketball program is headed.

So far this team has shown me nothing to change my mind about the fact we are done as a program; there is nothing to be proud about except some distant memories, which will no longer be remembered by the living in a couple of decades.

To put a couple of decades into perspective, 20 years ago NCSU was still and elite program in the ACC, though rocked by scandal, having won an ACC championship in 1987 and had 10 ACC titles all time, which put in second place behind UNC-Ch's 11 ACC titles. UNC-Ch and NCSU were the only two ACC program with National Titles, with two apiece.

In another 20 years I don't see anything changing.

Hopefully TOB will transform us into a football school. It's the only hope I have.

D Wolf
14th January 2009, 11:01
That's funny Gene. I had the same thought while sitting in the stands for the last few minutes of last nights game. Sad.

Mad Gene Vane
14th January 2009, 11:44
"That's funny Gene", I'm glad you see the sanguine humor in it.

I honestly would feel better if we showed some progress over the start of the season.

Part of really wishes Sid had been honest and said we are rebuilding and it will take a few years, since we didn't have enough players when he got here.

The only frustrating thing about b-ball season is my brother (and sister-in-law) went to Carolina, so I can't just pretend college basketball doesn't exist, since I like visiting my niece and nephew.

packinjax
14th January 2009, 15:54
Part of really wishes Sid had been honest and said we are rebuilding and it will take a few years, since we didn't have enough players when he got here.

Agreed, we weren't in a rebuilding position with Herb and to step back into a rebuilding position is hard to take. Not that it isn't necessary based on the previous system and the type of players we had, but hard to take none-the-less.

Derreck
14th January 2009, 15:59
Agreed, we weren't in a rebuilding position with Herb and to step back into a rebuilding position is hard to take. Not that it isn't necessary based on the previous system and the type of players we had, but hard to take none-the-less.

It was said internally. As I stated on another thread, this is why Sid requested 6 years on his contract, because he felt like that was how long it would take to fix the team.

Matt Nicholson
14th January 2009, 20:24
I'm in for 4. I might go for 5 if I like what I see in #4. But as for me, to get to year #6, there had better be a steady improvement from year 3 to 4 to 5.

So far, we're going the other way. It better change quick.

Eshack
14th January 2009, 21:12
I need a new drug..............



I was impressed by Sids recruits playing together against FSU, Thomas, Smith, Mays and CJ looked pretty good out there!

I'm still perplexed as to why Horner got as much time as he did.



Any new drugs anywhere?



This is going to take awhile.......
I hope I live long enough to see it

Ken Stallings
14th January 2009, 22:08
Gene, good points. No program is guaranteed success. It has to be worked for. The rebuilding effort really started when the academia went stupid and imposed their own death penalty on the program because of a media-driven hysteria they felt embarrassed the university.

Thing is the same crap was going on at the other ACC schools, including the annointed saint's program otherwise known as Saint Deano's. It's just that the UNC journalism school grads at the News & Observer would never toast their own the way they toasted Valvano.

V made the mistake of beating Dean too many times in too many important games. So, a fictional book by Golenback became unvetted fodder for the N&O pages. A book, by the way, that relied upon the equally unvetted "insider" comments by a towel boy deluded enough to expect Valvano to put a player number on his ACC championship ring vice the correct designation of "M" for manager!

Oh but what the lack of honest men with the spine to tolerate stupid criticism might have meant! Les Robinson with the ability to recruit AND sign Jerry Stackhouse vice hand him over to Deano! Imagine the possibilities!

For me, it came down to this. All those years it became clear Herb recruited for one thing -- to barely make it to the NCAA. To Herb that was the measure of success and it was why he felt betrayed because a team barely made it to the dance, got blown out in the ACC tournament, and then coughed up another late lead, didn't get a parade.

Instead, he sat in his car listening to alums and fans criticize the lack of championships. The excuse given was a few idiots who taunted his daughter. Every coach has to endure such acts from a few fools.

I think a lot of people discussed rebuilding. In fact, when Herb's final recruits all bolted, it became obvious we were starting over, especially when Herb pulled the plug so late that his replacement had nothing but a torn up recruiting pool to go after. Javi was not one of the top guards of that recruiting class, but we were particularly thin in that area and desperately needed someone.

Javi was even then considered a project.

That was all expected at the time. What was not expected was to see Costner turn into a sulking hypocrite! He's not a child anymore. He's an adult. It would be nice if he acted like one! But McCauley isn't any better so it's a double-barreled presentation of the me-first generation. Read the post-season interview comments of Sid given last summer. A more honest confirmation of this will never be publicly aired.

Perhaps I'm a bit personal on this, but here's the reason. Sid was my class. He was at NC State when I was and I saw the man play. He left his heart on the court each time. He was a leader. He worked to make the team best. All these nitwits (Costner and McCauley) ever needed to do was listen to their coach, follow his own example as a player, and put the team first. If they had played together last year with Hickson they had an excellent chance to do something special they would have appreciated and earned praise for their entire lives.

Instead, they tore each other apart, and created a situation so divisive that the team imploded in the single most humiliating finish in the school's entire basketball history! They should never live that down, ever! This was their chance to redeem themselves. Instead, they've confirmed it!

Ken

Matt Nicholson
17th January 2009, 14:23
*sigh*

I made the mistake of checking out how Minnesota is doing this year. 16-1, with the loss to Michigan State. Tubby is in year #2 at a school with ZERO tradition of winning. These guys have, historically, done absolutely nothing. Certainly nothing in at least the last 20 years. They get a 1st ballot Hall of Fame coach, and they are, practically overnight, ranked 18th and just had a great win over a very good Wisconsin team.

Why didn't WE go after Tubby 3 years ago? When we were looking, he clearly wanted out of UK where they did not appreciate him.

*sigh*

Here's Minnesota's roster (http://www.gophersports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8400&SPID=3302&SPSID=38664). Aside from some guy named Ralph Sampson (III), have you heard of ANY of them? Sampson the Third wasn't even a Top100 player! Hardly any were. Talk about taking nothing and making something. THAT'S a great coach...

LSmith
17th January 2009, 18:52
*sigh*

I made the mistake of checking out how Minnesota is doing this year. 16-1, with the loss to Michigan State. Tubby is in year #2 at a school with ZERO tradition of winning. These guys have, historically, done absolutely nothing. Certainly nothing in at least the last 20 years. They get a 1st ballot Hall of Fame coach, and they are, practically overnight, ranked 18th and just had a great win over a very good Wisconsin team.

Why didn't WE go after Tubby 3 years ago? When we were looking, he clearly wanted out of UK where they did not appreciate him.

*sigh*

Here's Minnesota's roster (http://www.gophersports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8400&SPID=3302&SPSID=38664). Aside from some guy named Ralph Sampson (III), have you heard of ANY of them? Sampson the Third wasn't even a Top100 player! Hardly any were. Talk about taking nothing and making something. THAT'S a great coach...

Not to take anything away from Tubby but #20 Louisville is the only ranked team thay have beat. Loss by 12 to #10 Mich State. Still a great job with the players he has but I will be interested in how they finish even in the weak "Big 10".

LSmith
17th January 2009, 19:43
Not to take anything away from Tubby but #20 Louisville is the only ranked team thay have beat.

And of course Louisville just beat #1 Pitt at tonight so what do I know.:confused:

Matt Nicholson
17th January 2009, 20:14
Wisconsin is just outside the top25 and Minn. beat them in Wisconsin. That was a quality road win right there.

2 years ago, Minnesota lost way more games than they won. So far this year they are 16-1. That's my point...

LSmith
17th January 2009, 21:35
I get your point. Tubby is a good coach who has done a great job so far this season. I think he underachieved somewhat at Kentucky with his only NCAA Championship in 10 seasons comming his 1rst season with Pitino's recruits. He had 13 and 12 losses and was 9-7 in the SEC his last 2 seasons there. I guess Kentucky fans were looking for a little more than just making the NCAA tournament each year much like we were? Would he have been a better hire than Lowe? I guess time will tell. Would he be sitting on one loss at this point with this years Pack team? I don't think so.

Yes beating Wisconsin on their court was a good win but Wisc has not beaten a ranked team this year. They lost to UConn by almost 20 points. Wisc. only lost to #14 Marquette by 3 points but even a team coached by a (inferior coach to Tubby Smith I assume is your point) Sidney Lowe only lost to Marquette by 3 points. Actually maybe I don't get your point.

BTW. The Big Ten freaken sucks. They have never won the ACC/Big Ten challenge and their best team lost to UNC this season by over 30 points!!! Should be a great year for a coach like Orlando Tubby who could not handle the heat of the SEC. Hell High Point U would finish somewhere in the midldle of the big 10. LOL!!!!!

Matt Nicholson
18th January 2009, 10:41
The Big 10 has NEVER beaten the ACC in the challenge, and that includes the years the Big 10 won the national title.

There is no doubt that Tubby was a proven top college coach at UK. We were looking for a proven top coach. He was clearly unhappy in his situation at UK, as evidence by his departure for tradition-deficient Minnesota.

Did we even ask the question?

BTW, coach K lost 12 games just a year or 2 ago, yet I don't see Duke fans wanting more (as in, kick K to the curb). The fact that Tubby can go into a situation like Minn. and have instant results with nothing to work with is incredibly telling to me. Perhaps if it doesn't work out with Lowe in the next year or two Tubby would like to return to an elite conference and go against the legends? We should be so lucky....

Matt Nicholson
20th January 2009, 12:09
Listening to Mike&Mike on the way in this morning was a real kick in the gut.

They were dicussing Wake Forest being #1 and Greenberg mentioned the "Big 3" in NC.

Big THREE?!?!

Holy shit. We're so irrelevant and have been for so long, we've been voted off the Big 4 island.

avisocan
21st January 2009, 20:05
I've resigned myself to feeling utterly apathetic towards our basketball program...

At the bowl game, I asked a 'Bama Alum sitting next to me what they do during basketball season:

"look at football recruiting for next year..."

If we start getting some very good successes in football, I can see that happening. Odd for a program with two national championships in basketball.

Matt Nicholson
21st January 2009, 20:32
^what he said^

Meanwhile, I'm watching 2 good teams play (UNC/Clemson). Midway through 1st half, my prediction is Clemson will lose this game due to foul shooting. Again. They can NOT hit a free throw to save thier collective lives....

Matt Nicholson
22nd January 2009, 04:51
0-54......

Derreck
22nd January 2009, 08:11
0-54......


And Clemson's second 1/2 was way uglier than ours...

Prowling Woofie
22nd January 2009, 08:27
Several exchanges under the Carolina basket where Hopsbro got away with assault and battery - he could've been arrested and convicted had it happened on the streets - and no call was made, or the call went Psycho T's way.

I appreciate letting the guys play, but a couple of times it was just blatant thuggery (and traveling, of course).

I've had enough of his crap, and getting away with it. He and Henderson need to go at each other when the Holes and Dukies play, and end each other's careers...

avisocan
22nd January 2009, 10:04
Psycho-T won't be able to curry the favor of the NBA officials as he has the NCAA... I look forward to him being as irrelevant as Eric Montross was in the NBA.

Prowling Woofie
22nd January 2009, 10:53
I think that's EXACTLY why he's 'enjoyed the college experience' for all four years...

Last night's announcers were gushing over what a force he'll be in the NBA :p