PDA

View Full Version : Talk me off the Ledge



Mad Gene Vane
27th January 2009, 12:08
I'm on the verge of calling for Lowe's head. I want to give him more time, but he's still not doing things to put this team into the best position to win.

The wholesale substitutions in the middle of the second half have cost us games, especially since some of the starters were hot (cough...Brandon) and we don't have a lot of offensive options on the second unit.

His in ability to get a set rotation in, at this point in the season, is also getting me pissed. For example, as fans, we all know Javi just can't get it done, so why did he see minutes in ACC play?

Why play him over Mays at Clemson? Mays clearly has more upside and has played better.

I can live with losing. As an NCSU fan we're the dregs of ACC basketball and are used to it by now, but a coach not doing his best or getting the most out of his players, i.e. McCauley still has no jump shot, while Horner's jump shot has disappeared in three years, just makes me wonder if it's worth sticking with the current coaching staff.

At some point we shouldn't struggle in every ACC game, even our wins. Moral victories don't reflect in the standings.

I think it's time to start demanding more out of Lowe and I really don't see enough progress in our team to feel confident anything is going to change in the future.

LSmith
27th January 2009, 13:25
I can live with losing. As an NCSU fan we're the dregs of ACC basketball and are used to it by now, but a coach not doing his best or getting the most out of his players, i.e. McCauley still has no jump shot, while Horner's jump shot has disappeared in three years, just makes me wonder if it's worth sticking with the current coaching staff.

As far as developing players I think the key is seeing how Tracy Smith, Johnny Thomas, Mayes, and other Lowe recruits improve over the years. I think we have already seen marked improvement by Smith since last season. Players rarily got better from their freshman to their senior year under Herb and it appears his leftover recruits (McCauley, Costner, Fells) are not either.

I too often fail to understand some of Lowe's game decisions but I will say there have been times when the wholesale subs kept us in the game (FSU) only to have the starters come back in and flop closing the deal. As far as Javi in the Clemson game the only thing I can figure is that it was at a point in the season he was looking for a PG to step up and he must have seen something in practice to give him a shot.

I am resigned to say "it is what it is" as far as this season is concerned. I will be highly pissed if we finish dead last again but I will reframe from calling for his head until at least next season where he will be playing with mostly his players. If we do finish dead last it may be early in the season next year when I join the bandwaggon but right now I am going to have confidence that Lowe will turn the ship in the right direction.

Mad Gene Vane
27th January 2009, 16:05
I think FSU is the only time the whole sale substitution did anything for us and then he sits the guys, who got us back into the game and the starters couldn't get it done.

I remember the Davidson game and we were up by 7, in the second half, and needed to deliver a "knock out" punch and really take control of the game. Lowe puts in the 'B' team and we let Davidson back in.

We were up by six at Duke and we went with the whole sale substitution again and were tied up on two posessions. I don't know if Duke would've mounted a come back or not, but I feel like we just gave the game away.

I can understand tinkering at the beginning of the year, but if we'd won the Davidson game and Duke game, we'd be in good shape for an NIT bid, at least.

What worries me is we've lost a few important games because of in-game coaching decisions.

I really don't know if the fanbase should sit quietly by, if we are sitting home in March.

If nothing else, Fowler (god, who's wife does he have naked pictures of anyway?) should really feel the heat, because he didn't even realize Sendek was planning on quitting and botched the coaching search. For a guy, who unconditionally backed Sendek, he should've received more confidence from Herb than what he got.

Derreck
28th January 2009, 08:15
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/1384538.html

MGV, read this article. Dave Odom thinks Lowe is doing a good job and I think that he knows a little bit about basketball.

Ken Stallings
28th January 2009, 09:06
Gene,

I posted this observation in another thread, but I think it works here also. First off, at this forum, we respect people voicing their sincere views and therefore we respect yours' voiced here. We really do.

However, what I've seen with our veteran players is the same inconsistency that one normally sees with freshmen and sophomores. I put Costner and McCauley foremost in that column and I see no justification for it. Neither is injured. They've had plenty of experience and should know the drill.

Costner was a burger boy, so one would expect more from him. Oh, he's had occasional exhibitions of excellence, but nothing remotely close to consistency.

McCauley has likewise disappointed me, but he's consistently been our best rebounder, so despite his up and down shooting, he's grabbed the boards consistently well. That's likely the sole reason he's gobbled up more minutes than any other player on the team.

Fells is simply playing injured. I feel for him. I am hoping his performance against Miami indicates he's feeling well again and ready to tear it up like he did last season.

Horner? Well, except for a few minutes in two games, he's been a shooting liability and good for little else.

That leaves the freshmen and sophomores. Overall, Tracy Smith has played consistently well, in fact clearly better than any of the veterans played as sophomores. Smith looks like a breakout player to me. I say keep giving him the minutes.

Lowe is smart enough to know everything I wrote. So, he's trying to give his younger players experience to run the system he wants to run. He's also hoping his veterans will earn more minutes through sustained and consistent excellent play.

Ken

Matt Nicholson
28th January 2009, 19:30
My call for the head will not come until season 4. It's the exact same courtesy K and Deano recieved from their schools when they too struggled in year #3. That is only fair.

But that's it. 4 years is PLENTY of time to make a team yours and make a change for the positive. Look at Minnesota with Tubby. 2 years ago they lost 22 gmaes. They may win 22 games this year. And, dare I say it, look at ASU. They've done a complete 180 in just 3 years. 2 schools with virtually ZERO basketball tradition suddenly are top 25 teams in good conferences in less than 4 years. And lets not forget Wake Forest. A 2nd year coach with no head coaching experience just beat #1 Duke. Two years ago they didn't even make the NIT.

4 years is PLENTY of time to see what a coach can do. I don't buy the 6 year thing. What's so magical about 6 years? We aren't red-shirting anyone for development. If you can't take a situation and make it better in 4 years, than you're just not that good. We can't do this with one-and-doners. That's no way to build consistency. We need more Engin Atsurs, Julius Hodges', and Tom Gugliottas, not guys looking to spend their 1 year in purgatory here just going through the motions before they can jump to the NBA.

I'm not on the ledge, but I have the window open, and I'm looking at it....

Derreck
28th January 2009, 21:38
4 years is PLENTY of time to see what a coach can do. I don't buy the 6 year thing. What's so magical about 6 years? We aren't red-shirting anyone for development. If you can't take a situation and make it better in 4 years, than you're just not that good. We can't do this with one-and-doners. That's no way to build consistency. We need more Engin Atsurs, Julius Hodges', and Tom Gugliottas, not guys looking to spend their 1 year in purgatory here just going through the motions before they can jump to the NBA.

Lowe is different then someone who has never been a HC, but has been a college assistant. Coaches who are college assistants have recruiting ties established. Lowe had none of that, he came in green. Lowe was hired so late in the off season, recruiting was all but over and he was left scrambling because two commits backed out. He then had to get his degree completed, then had to study to pass the NCAA test. So that put him behind the 8 ball in starting year two. Larry Harris coming back to State allowed Sid to pull a rabbit out of the hat with JJ Hickson. Julius Mays and CJ Williams are really the first true recruiting class for Lowe. They both look to be solid 4 year players, and the incoming class of Brown, Howell, & Wood (with some possible additions) looks to be very good to great. It is when these two classes reach upper class men status should Lowe be judges.

Ken Stallings
28th January 2009, 21:39
Matt, the ACC is much tougher than is the Big-10 and Pac-10. Three of the top five ranked teams reside within just 60 miles of Raleigh! The two teams you mentioned can create weaker teams with better records than we can achieve. By the time the season is over, we won't have three ACC teams in the top 10. They will knock each other off like they always do. But no other conference will have to play such consistently powerful opponents. You put even this current NC State team in either the Big-10 or Pac-10 and our record would be better than it is.

Frankly, it would be unfair to omit that reality when evaluating how your coach is doing.

Ken

D Wolf
29th January 2009, 07:45
I'm already concerned about next year's team. I believe that our perimeter will be more experienced and will be helped with the addition of Brown and Woods, but we are very thin on post players. If Costner does not return for his senior season (anyone know how that's likely to play out?), then we have Tracy Smith (6-8), Dennis Horner (6-9, but not really a post player), walk on Kendall Smith (6-8), and incoming freshman Richard Howell (6-7). That's not alot of size nor much quality depth.

I realize that we are still in the hunt for DeMarcus Cousins, but he would still be a freshman. As much as I would love to have him, its difficult to see immediate success when you're depending on freshmen to play leading roles on your team. Maybe Sid will look to the JUCO route to fill some gaps. Any thoughts?

Don't get me wrong. I'm encouraged that the talent level that Sid is recruiting seems to be getting better, but I'm not convinced that year 4 is going to be significantly better than this year.

packinjax
29th January 2009, 08:31
He then had to get his degree completed, then had to study to pass the NCAA test. So that put him behind the 8 ball in starting year two.

I'm behind Lowe atm, but this just further shows the ineptitude of the AD's office. Would there have been a transition regardless of who came in based on the previous coaching style? Sure. But to knowingly put the program farther behind the 8 ball, incompetence.

Derreck
29th January 2009, 09:50
I'm behind Lowe atm, but this just further shows the ineptitude of the AD's office. Would there have been a transition regardless of who came in based on the previous coaching style? Sure. But to knowingly put the program farther behind the 8 ball, incompetence.

Yea, that is a horse of a whole different color.

Mad Gene Vane
29th January 2009, 13:49
"If Costner does not return for his senior season (anyone know how that's likely to play out?), "

SFN just posted an interview with Costner from a basketball blog saying he's graduating and will not be back.

"It is when these two classes reach upper class men status should Lowe be judges. "

I don't think the fans can wait that long, unless Lowe can get more out of less than he's been able to do.

Ken Stallings
29th January 2009, 21:40
We have to Gene. If we fire Lowe anytime within the next two seasons it will destroy NC State basketball and we won't see another championship in our lifetimes. No one will want to come here to coach. No one!

Ken