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Derreck
6th May 2009, 09:17
http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20090505/ARTICLES/905059967/1005/SPORTS?Title=ACC-Insider-NBA-courts-Sidney-Lowe-but-he-s-still-with-the-Pack

I post this article to simply point out that Lowe is a highly coveted coach in the NBA. IMO, that show me the man can coach or NBA teams would not be knocking down his door. It also shows that he is committed to NC State. The first few seasons have been rough, he has a chance to jump ship and make more money in the process but has choose to stay and stick with it. Lowe is really excited about the future of these teams with the talent level he is bringing in. Let's not forget that we already have a top 25 recruiting class coming in and with the addition of Painter (assuming he commits) and Vandenburg should volt us into the top 10.

Mad Gene Vane
6th May 2009, 10:55
I'll let the wins losses decide how good a head coach Lowe is. Plenty of top assisstants never make the transition to being a good heac coach, but they still have plenty of demand as an assisstant.

Ken Stallings
6th May 2009, 16:43
True Gene, but Sid's also been an NBA head coach and was lauded for his performance even then. You have to have the horses to win in the NBA just like in the ACC. Sid earned those kudos and if the jury were still out on his skills then he wouldn't be courted. There's a heap of money at risk in the NBA, Gene.

People who know the game know that Sid took inexperienced squads and got them vastly improved in quick order.

I think next season is finally the one where we can fairly evaluate Sid. I say that because I think we've finally got the malcontents off the team. I could fault Sid for giving them one more chance, but considering their promise on paper, I cannot really blame him too much.

The promise I see is that by the final third of the season, in nearly every game we played it was Sid's recruits who consistently performed best on the team, despite their vastly reduced college game experience.

Call me nuts, but I have a good feeling about next season and if you recall, Gene, this time last year I did not.

Ken

Mad Gene Vane
6th May 2009, 18:47
Jerry West fired Sid, while at Memphis after Sid got off to an 0-8 (or something like it) start, in his third year there (I think it was Pal Gasol's rookie year) and brought in Hubie Brown, who had them turned around in a year or two.

Sure Sid didn't have the talent, but clearly he wasn't showing a good GM, in Jerry West, that he could eventually get it done if he had the talent.

It's impressive Sid got a second chance at head coaching, after his disasterous year with the T-Wolves. Other than that there's no real way to evaluate his head coaching ability based on his pro experience. His win-loss record's awful, but maybe there were extenuating circumstances due to lack of talent. Maybe a better coach could've ground out a few more wins than Sid did. There's nothing that can be conclusively drawn from his NBA head coaching experience.

He's a good assistant coach in the NBA. He seems to have a good understanding of exploiting match-ups on offense. Whether or not this translates into success at NCSU is an open question.

As far as next year being better, a lot depends on player improvement in the off-season, which hasn't been a strong suit of NCSU basketball in decades.

I have a feeling Javi may have hit his ceiling and a lot of people are expecting him to keep developing. I think he'll make better decisions, but athletically I don't think there's more he can do. He won't be the player we've so desperately needed, who can get his own shot when things breakdown. His play won't be close the horror show it was as a freshman, but he won't be getting named all-conference either.

I hope I'm wrong. I really really do.

If we want to be successful again, we need at least one player to step up and be an all-conference caliber player or at the least honorable mention.

Tracy Smith might be able to do it, but how will he handle being the main go-to guy? He's shown some flashes of being a very good player, but being consistent and wanting to be the main focus of the offense is a whole different thing (see Fells and Costner as examples).

C.J. Williams? He's shown he won't be totally blown away by ACC competition, but whether or not he'll be able to be a major contributor is another issue.

The list can go on about all the question marks we have going into next year and how much our hopes are making us see through red-tinted glasses versus what the reality about what our returning players can actually deliver.

All I know for certain about next year is we'll all be happy with the outcome, i.e. make it to the NCAA's (I don't think anyone cares at this point about seeding or winning a tourney game, just getting in is all that really matters) or we'll be disappointed and at best have to settle for the NIT.

I don't think there's going to be a middle ground, where we can be satisfied with where we ended up, because it's making the NCAA's or bust next year.

packinjax
7th May 2009, 02:32
Sid earned those kudos and if the jury were still out on his skills then he wouldn't be courted. There's a heap of money at risk in the NBA, Gene.

There may be a heap of money at risk in the NBA, but they aren't shy about cutting a coach over a player either.

It also takes different skill sets to be successful coaching in the NBA vs college.

Its good pub for Sid (and thus NCSU bball) with this article.

gjones1968
7th May 2009, 09:08
Gene,

Did you really think we would be better in three years than we are now? If you did you didn't have the right mindset. It takes at least four years to turn a program over from one coach to another. This is the fourth year for Lowe. Now we can begin to evaluate him fairly because he recruited all the players on the team.

You sound as if you expect nest year to be a disaster and it hasn't even begun yet.

Mad Gene Vane
7th May 2009, 14:19
There's a lot of unfounded optimism circulating among some factions of the Wolfpack Nation, gjones.

I'm just trying to bring in some sober reality. We just don't know how good or bad we'll be next year. There are too many unknowns or assumptions about player development and the impact the freshman will have to know for sure if next year will be good or bad.

I'm not making any predictions, until we finish recruiting for 2009 and see what pieces we have in place and we see what our 2009-2010 schedule looks like.

Like I said, all I know about next year is people will be satisified with the season or disappointed. I don't see a middle ground existing.

Mad Gene Vane
7th May 2009, 14:28
Gene,

Did you really think we would be better in three years than we are now? If you did you didn't have the right mindset. It takes at least four years to turn a program over from one coach to another. This is the fourth year for Lowe. Now we can begin to evaluate him fairly because he recruited all the players on the team.



I think in respect to some of the fundamental basketball skills, this team lacked, I think we could've been better than we have been. I don't think it takes more than a season to be an effective rebounding team. I don't think we should've had the lapses on defense we've had the past two seasons. There were games we looked like we didn't want to be in the building and didn't show up to play basketball.

We've shown some improvement in rebounding, but we're no where near a dominant rebounding team. Our defense is still suspect and needs to improve if we want to win.

There are probably a few other areas, I can think of, where I think we could've been better, if I put my mind to it.

In the end, there's no reason this team couldn't have gone to three straight NIT's, at the least, if we played better, more foundamentally sound, basketball.

How much is due to coaching or lack of personnel, I don't know. But NCSU didn't squeaze every last bit of effort and talent and performance from our players, the past few seasons, so do I think we could've been better? Yes.

Ken Stallings
7th May 2009, 16:25
There's a lot of unfounded optimism circulating among some factions of the Wolfpack Nation, gjones.

I'm just trying to bring in some sober reality. We just don't know how good or bad we'll be next year. There are too many unknowns or assumptions about player development and the impact the freshman will have to know for sure if next year will be good or bad.

I'm not making any predictions, until we finish recruiting for 2009 and see what pieces we have in place and we see what our 2009-2010 schedule looks like.

Like I said, all I know about next year is people will be satisified with the season or disappointed. I don't see a middle ground existing.

That's a fair assessment, Gene. I really cannot disagree with you on that one iota. :)

Ken

Mad Gene Vane
7th May 2009, 18:22
I win!!!!!! :D

gjones1968
12th May 2009, 12:10
You sound Pessemistic Gene. Now that the Program is Lowe's he has to take all the blame for any failures of the team. We can't say that so and so was recruited by Herb anymore.

That being the case I am looking forward to seeing what 2009 brings to the table.

The bottomline for me is, we have to stop getting rid of coaches and keep one. Regardless of how they do. Case in point, Coach K at Duke.:cool:

Mad Gene Vane
12th May 2009, 12:58
By year six, if we aren't playing in the NCAA Finals, I see no reason to bring up Coach Krczyweski comparisons, because he got Duke to a Final Four that quickly after he took over.

I'm not entirely pessimistic. I just don't see the reason for unbridled enthusiasm, until you see how players improved during the off-season or how the freshman will perform.

I think this team can make the NCAA tournament next year.

I also think can continue doing what we've been doing for years, and make enough bad plays during the course of a game that we lose winnable games and are sitting home in March.

packinjax
13th May 2009, 01:50
we have to stop getting rid of coaches and keep one.

That statement makes it sound like we've been a carousel.

There is little to no argument that we did not give the fball and bball coaches the time to succeed. Besides we only got rid of one coach. The other walked on us.

gjones1968
13th May 2009, 05:50
The point is, Duke wanted to run K out after his third year too. If they had, where would they be now? Duke stuck with K and it payed off. Not right away but, in the long run.

If we want this program to get to the level of Duke, it might be wise of us to follow their blueprint. Dontcha think?

We may not be a carousel but, if we keep starting over, we might as well be.

packinjax
13th May 2009, 06:57
We're not Duke and we're not UNC. Holding on to a coach doesn't guarantee you long term success... see Herb. For this program to get to the level of Duke or UNC we need a HOFC. I'm not saying Lowe is or isn't (a HOFC), but if you stick with someone who isn't you'll be mired in mediocrity forever.

I do know almost everyone on here, even the most avid supporters have been befuddled by some of the coaching decisions that were made. Maybe the same can be said for K, but the unknown is if Lowe can learn from it and rise above the cream. Hopefully he can and will.

gjones1968
13th May 2009, 09:11
I'm sure the same was said of coach K. The point is, Duke stuck with K and things turned out fine for them. I think the same thing can happen for us but, we have to stop starting over first.

Say what you want about Herb but, he did take us to five straight NCAA Appearances. Now that he is gone, we haven't been back in three years. Why? Because we started over again. Now in three years we might be starting over again. When does this insanity end?

packinjax
13th May 2009, 13:20
5 straight with 1 miracle run to the sweet 16 for a coach of 10 years. Better than what it is now, but its not where we wanted to be.

Anyway, my point was regarding the comment of "stop getting rid of coaches and keep one..." Bottom line, if a coach isn't getting you were you want to be, they need to be moved on. Sure you have to give the coach a reasonable chance (time frame, resources, etc.) but if you have to keep starting over, so be it, or the other option is accepting the mediocrity (if its even that).

I think MGV brings a good balance to some of the more positive posts. It keeps the roses rosey.

gjones1968
13th May 2009, 13:44
If you keep starting over all you're doing is spinning your wheels.

Mad Gene Vane
13th May 2009, 16:48
The point is, Duke wanted to run K out after his third year too. If they had, where would they be now? Duke stuck with K and it payed off. Not right away but, in the long run.



gjones, my point is Duke didn't have to wait that long for success after year three.

There wasn't a patient, stick with coach K, for year after year to see what would happen.

By year 4 or 5, there were serious tangible improvements and in year 6 they lost in the NCAA finals to Louisville in a very very close game.

There's no reason to stick with a coach past year 4, 5, or 6, if they aren't doing something significant, as in going to the Final Four or at least the Sweet 16.

gjones1968
14th May 2009, 11:21
If that's true Gene, why did we stick with Herb for 10 years? That's four beyond year 6.

Matt Nicholson
14th May 2009, 11:39
Not right away but, in the long run.


IIRC, year 4 was the class of Dawkins/Alarie/Bilas and they danced THAT year. As seniors they went to the final (86?)

DUKERULES14
14th May 2009, 16:59
IIRC, year 4 was the class of Dawkins/Alarie/Bilas and they danced THAT year. As seniors they went to the final (86?)

You are correct.