NC State earns a huge road win at Virginia 53-51, to grab sole possession of fourth place in the ACC, with a 14-5 (5-3 ACC) record.
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Thread: The future

  1. #1
    Administrator Ken Stallings's Avatar
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    Default The future

    Dave Doeren will return next season. There is zero question about that. But, he's gone from being the trendy darling in coaching recruiting circles to now standing at a crossroads in his career. The principle argument against an honest assessment of the situation is that rival programs will use and abuse the unrest to their advantage. Lies in recruiting happen every year and facts not in evidence are just made up. Young people who listen to lies will taste a bitter brew. There's nothing more that needs to be said about that. For those of us who choose to live in the world of reality with an independent mind, there are many realities that we need to soberly address.

    The first reality is that recruiting is the life blood of college sports. There is no draft that gives struggling teams some chance to recover. In college sports, there are no safety nets. A program can fall quick and descend very deep. In one season, the situation for NC State football has reversed. Mack Brown has entirely changed the recruiting picture. The gate that Dave Doeren built over five years has been torn down in a few months.

    Mack Brown has recruited the nation's 17th best class for next season, third best in the ACC, and hauled in nearly all of the top recruits from the state of North Carolina. Dave Doeren has achieved far less, the nation's 45th best class, and a middling eighth ranking within the ACC. Worse, those results were amassed long before the ultimate humiliation of Saturday night's nationally televised destruction, with a 28-point third quarter debacle, enroute to a 41-10 drubbing at Carter-Finley stadium. This was a rivalry result as bad as any in the over 100 year history of the series.

    The brutal truth is that a 68 year old coach, who was fired at Texas, and was an ESPN commentator, has been hired back for his second stint at UNC and before his first season was even begun, completely changed the trends in Chapel Hill's favor. Sugar coating that reality is simply pandering to lies, and nothing is achieved by such an ostrich approach. That reversal wasn't achieved through lies in recruiting circles, but instead through outworking the NC State coaching staff. Back-to-back nine win seasons, five straight bowl games, a record five QB's on NFL active rosters, and a very impressive list of other NFL players, should have been more than a sufficient foundation to avoid such an immediate reversal of recruiting trends.

    Add in the huge international black eye of cheating and naked evisceration of academic standards, and UNC had a lot to overcome. A geriatric coach, taken off the ESPN roster, should not have been able to achieve such a complete reversal of fortune so quickly, regardless of him winning a single national title at Texas, and then falling spectacularly and getting fired by one of the nation's most impatient alumni bases.

    No, the hard truth is that the Wolfpack coaching staff got outworked, and this season's results show it. Fact is, through those five years of success at NC State, we never once had a recruiting result that matches what Mack Brown's staff achieved in their first year on the job. Player development is how a young team can struggle initially and become better, and in that measure, this coaching staff experienced a very bad year. This team did not become better. It became much worse as the season wore on, and yes injuries were a factor, but not everything can be explained by injuries.

    And this goes well beyond just Mack Brown and UNC. Frankly, NC State has at best treaded water in comparison with other North Carolina based football programs. Our records against Wake Forest, East Carolina, Duke, and UNC has not shown the kind of dominance that one would expect with a program that has completely dominated these other teams in terms of putting NFL players on the professional stage.

    All the achievements, all the hard work, and all the improvements that were achieved in the last five years came crashing down in a pile of burning debris this season. Those achievements are why Dave Doeren will return next season, and he deserves to because of those achievements. But, make no mistake, the slate has been cleaned and he starts fresh. There will be no further claims of goodwill earned through past achievements. For Dave Doeren, and his entire staff, next season is a referendum, and the results need to undergo significant improvement, not merely on the field through the record, but perhaps more importantly on the recruiting trail.

    Pointing out those truths aren't hurting those efforts. Everyone who's an integral part of recruiting already has focused on those realities. For them, this is past tense observations. Fooling ourselves won't help one little bit, but might hurt. What will help is the bluntly delivered truth that everyone on this NC State football coaching staff is working for his job, and their efforts along those lines started five months ago when they started to stumble on the recruiting trail, failed to properly develop their underclass players, and squandered a five year base of achievement in only three months of time. Goodwill is exhausted. All that matters now are achievements going forward, and no one gets a free pass any longer. Dave Doeren needs to comprehend this, and make whatever changes to his staff are necessary to ensure that we don't fall behind any further on the recruiting trail, nor in the critical area of player development.

    Ken Stallings
    Owner, Wolfpack Forums.com

  2. #2
    Administrator Derreck's Avatar
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    Default

    OK, where to start...

    #1 this was always a filler recruiting class. I have said that a ton, I said that from the day that Mack was hired and to be cautious of the hype train that was coming.

    #2 Our record against WF, ECU, Duke and UNC? We have won 2 straight against ECU. Haven't played Duke in like 7 years, until Saturday had won 3 straight over the Heels and won 9 of 12, still have won 9 of 13 and 4 of 6. WF is the only program in state that has had DD's number. And frankly that go back a lot longer than DD. And DD is like 3-4 vs. WF so its not like WF is dominating the series.

    #3 Recruiting. I got news for you UNC almost always has a strong "paper" class. Always. In 2019 UNC was 6th in the ACC, the Pack 6th, In 2018 UNC was 4th and State 6th, 2017 UNC 5th and State 10th, 2016 UNC was 5th and State was 9th, in 2015 UNC was 4th, State was 6th. I went all the way back to 2010, Not one of the Pack's recruiting was higher than UNC's (Per 247 sports). Yet it has not mattered on the field for the most part. Why? You can buy recruiting rankings for your players to drive hype. UNC does this a lot. Just pay attention every kid that commits to UNC almost always gets a bump in rankings.

    #4 The Mack Brown hype train. I have been warning everyone about this, yet I see State fans falling for this hook, line, and sinker. UNC is going to drive they hype train. And they have built in help from the local media. Mack is a great salesman (dont forget I was recruited by Mack so I know first hand). Dave will have to adjust to Mack. And frankly, Mack will win more than his fair share of players in NC. Just a fact. DD will have to get creative and also look outside the state of NC.

    #5 The worst thing that can be done is make an emotional decision. Yes, there will likely be staff changes this year. It was likely going to happen no matter the results on the field. With so many new coaches, someone was bound to not fit in and mesh with the staff and culture at State. But DD will need to evaluate things on every level and I am being told he will. But its hard to judge a staff with so many moving pieces w/ injuries.
    "You have to understand, I grew up a NC State fan. Every State-Carolina basketball game, football game, I've been there. It's fun, and if you like to competing and I love competing... that will be extra special."

    Coach Avent

  3. #3
    Administrator Ken Stallings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Doeren -- team address after UNC game
    For you guys that are coming back understand we are going to fix this. Here's what I need. Before we leave I need everybody to hug these seniors and thank them. This is the last time I'm going to be with you guys (seniors). Here's the second thing that I need. I need everybody to understand that when we come back here in January it ain't going to be the same. We're going to get back to being tough! It's going to be a grind. It's going to be the greatest thing you've ever done. But, get your mind right right now. Because you don't get to play hard and play tough and play together and not have a bad ass off season. That's when you win it! Everybody understand me?
    What I wrote leading off this thread was analytical, not emotional. Serious things were broke this season and need serious fixing, and while I agree with the comments Doeren made in the locker room to the team, most importantly of all I think it clearly shows that he knows these things were seriously broken. Doeren's senior class achieved some great results, but they are leaving on a sour note, and they know this also. The rising upperclassmen have a leadership challenge and opportunity laid before them. Hand-in-hand with the coaching staff for next season, they have to motivate everyone to prepare more effectively than was done in the 2019 preseason. As Doeren well said, "get back to being tough!"

    UNC's hype is their hype, just as worthless as their lies in trying to escape accountability for sacrificing their academic reputation as a university, simply to keep a handful of athletes eligible through a system designed by legal scholars to pass NCAA muster, regardless of moral decay. As I wrote, we at NC State focus on reality. UNC can keep focusing on hype and subterfuge. All that just gives us the avenue to fix what is broken with our program and move on to renewing our recent dominance over them on the gridiron. But, that avenue will remain an untrodden path until we honestly address what is broke and fix it!

    My confidence with Doeren is that he's an honest broker and he knows what is broken. The only question is can he assemble the optimal coaching staff next season to motivate the players to fix the problems? In that question, I remain optimistic. Frankly, I think if he could read my comments, he might raise his eyebrows and acknowledge the truth of it, and accept the challenge for what it truly is.

    Ken

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    Administrator Derreck's Avatar
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    The only issue I took with your post was recruiting, which is what I specifically responded too.

    There is a perception that recruiting has "fallen off" this year. It has not. NC State is ranked #44 in the Nation this year (per 247), last years class that everyone thought was so great was ranked #31 (per 247). And there are still some recruits we are going to likely land before the 18th that will bump us up some.

    If there is one thing this staff should not be questioned on is recruiting. Not with the number of NFL players that have been produced. This staff can eye talent and recruit it to fill needs. And most of those NFL guys were under the radar guys.

    The 2014 recruiting for State was ranked #7 in the ACC and #34 Nationally, it produced:

    Kentavious Street
    Germaine Pratt
    Justin Jones
    Terronne Prescod
    BJ Hill
    Tony Adams
    Stephen Louis
    Jalan McClendon
    Will Richardson
    Tyler Jones
    Bradley Chubb
    AJ Cole
    Jaylen Samuels
    Garrett Bradbury

    Every one of the players were at least in an NFL camp at one point and several are still in the league, including two first round picks. That's 14 players out of a single recruiting class and only McClendon and Street were 4 star prospects. Everyone else was 3 star or lower.
    Last edited by Derreck; 4th December 2019 at 06:51.
    "You have to understand, I grew up a NC State fan. Every State-Carolina basketball game, football game, I've been there. It's fun, and if you like to competing and I love competing... that will be extra special."

    Coach Avent

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